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Sephir
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Sephir
   "Mienai hane ga Aru. Kora Anata ni mo aru."
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:46 pm
Hi !
I'm trying to make some cool/hard puzzles, but it doesn't work out... :p
Could Someone help me a little ? Very Happy
So here are my main questions:

1) What combos of items should i use to make something hard ?

2) What items should i use the most ? (strange question i know Smile )
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miracle monkey
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miracle monkey
   "I don't have any answers. I just ask questions."
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:42 am
Both of your questions depend on what type of level you want. Compare (virtually any version of) Bouncing Bob to Anger (not a puzzle yet, just in the forums). I would consider both of these to be hard, but in completely different ways.

Regardless, I think combos come easier to mind once you understand the individual items well, then how they interact. For example, a number of interesting puzzles come from gimmicks that were found while testing. If you eat an emotion bud it will affect emotional platforms, so what happens when Eets is inside the platform? Or you can start thinking backwards from a result that you'd like: say you want a sow to shoot a pig at some point, but you'd like to make that part hard. Think about what you have added that can hit sows. If you put in a ginseng factory or a chococannon you better test out that they can't be used to immediately hit the sow. (i.e. they already have another predefined purpose that is essential to solving the level or are locked somewhere else.) Once you know what you want to hit the pig with, figure out how you want to get it there - is it pushed, whaled, carted, etc? For bonus points (figuratively) follow where the item you used to hit the sow goes afterwards and see if you can use the item a second time.

Indeed, a strange question Razz However it has an answer. I believe in a post somewhere we talk about "power items". These are the prankster whale, sneezy sow, explodo-mallow, and bob. I think that the ginseng factory and choco cannon have good versitility as well because they can provide pushes to Eets and other items, and the cannon can make Eets happy, eventually. Anyway, the power items are called such because they modify the level in some major ways - explosions, relocating Eets a distance, and moving everything in the level around (for this reason you may consider the alien bud powerful too - I find it hard to use at times). So, these items generally allow twists to the level that might not be expected because they do so much. That being said, you have to be careful using them because these are also the items that generally provide alternate solutions.

The best advice I can give for making difficult levels however is this: test out the levels in the creation forum.
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CheesyRamen
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CheesyRamen
   "Eets Puzzle Bamboozler"
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:43 am
Miracle Monkey's suggestions are right on the spot! Usually when I make a Puzzle, I'll start with a basic idea that I want to implement into the Puzzle. Then I'll work around that idea and add in other things for the player to do. Afterwards, I'll tweak the puzzle a bit so that any unintended solutions players may find are gone. Then I'll normally post the level for everyone to play! Happy Marsh Bud

There are two things to remember in making a hard puzzle:

    - People normally want to find the fastest solution to a puzzle, not the most complex one

    - Almost all the time, someone will find a different way to pass a puzzle than you intended.


I'll also second the puzzle submission; If you're really confident and/or experienced, you can just post your puzzle. But Eets Ninjas have all sorts of ways to solve puzzles in ways you didn't intend, so it's still a good idea to post your puzzle in the creation forum and get feedback from others.
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Lillarion
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Lillarion
   "Puzzle Optimiser"
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:05 am
Mwahaha! I just realized that all the insane puzzles are mine! (Does that make me insane? )

Often puzzles gets hard by enforcing the intended solution. I know both BigFoot and CheesyRamen have lots of puzzles (well... some, at least) with insane oficial solutions, but quite easy unintended solutions (e.g. Robot Lords Arise).
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Daveed
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Daveed
   "Clicky Puzzles Mostly"
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:32 am
Timing is usually involved in making hard puzzles as well as clicky bits and precision these are the key elements to a hard puzzleI think
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